http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=513951
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Feb 13th 2008, 3:11 am #1
johncons
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 9
Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Hi,
I'm really a Nurse living in Britain, but I searched on the internet, regarding some problems I've been having, when I tried to go to the USA, in 2005.
Then I had some problems with the Detroit Imigration Control, and they wrote some text in my passport, and sent me back to Oslo, via Paris.
Here's what was written:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1059338080
Just now, I searched on the internet, on the text '8 CFR 217.4 (a)'.
And I found this post, on this message-board:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73347
The post-writer, seems to have been having a similar problem as I had, when I tried to go to the US, for a holiday, two or three months, in February 2005.
I wanted to rent a car in Detroit, and drive and see a bit of the country.
But I wasn't let through the passport-control, and I had to sit an answer questions in a room, for several hours.
And I suspect they were calling like, the Norwegian government, and things like that.
I'm not sure exactly what they mean with 'no ties outside of the US'.
But if they were afraid that I would exploit the American welfare system, then I think that was a bit strange, since Norway has like a generous, or what the right word is, welfare system.
But anyway.
I had a rented storage in Oslo, with City Self Storage there.
Is that considered a tie outside of the US, I was wondering.
And I have a grandmother in Norway etc., but I'm not sure if that's considered a tie.
The reason I'm wondering how they define 'a tie', is that I'm a bit worried, that people, who they define, as not having 'a tie', is being played games with, used as 'target guys', etc, by the CIA etc.
So I'm trying to get whatever it is that is going on to stop.
This is a link, where I've been trying to explain what's going on a bit better:
http://johncons.trykker.com/2008/02/...22-pa-engelsk/
So, I would be very if someone knows they define 'a tie', because it's sometimes a bit stressful, with whats going on, and I suspect it could be linked with what happened in the Detroit Imigration Control, or what they are called, in 2005.
So thanks very much in advance for any help!
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Feb 13th 2008, 9:16 am #2
Folinskyinla
Senior Member
Premium Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 15,281
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncons
So, I would be very if someone knows they define 'a tie', because it's sometimes a bit stressful, with whats going on, and I suspect it could be linked with what happened in the Detroit Imigration Control, or what they are called, in 2005.
So thanks very much in advance for any help!
Hi:
First of all, your facebook link needs a password of some sort.
"Ties" is equivalent to a home outside of the US which you intend to return to.
The 8 CFR 217.4(a) notation simply shows that you were refused entry on the Visa Waiver program -- please note that this does NOT count as a formal removal. And fortunately, the "no ties" notation shows that there was NO fraud finding.
The VW is simply an admission under the equivalent of the "B-1/2" non-immigrant categories. [There are some procedural differences]. If you look up section 101(a)(15)(B) of the Immigration & Nationality Act, the very definition of visitor requires that one have home abroad with no intention of abandoning it.
So the reference to "ties" is to show the existence of a residence abroad AND an intent to return to that residence. And those ties can change. For example, the three month visit at a land border is indication of coming to the US to stay -- and it was up to you to show that was not true. BTW, did you have a confirmed ticket out of the US or did you simply plan to return to Canada?
That said, since you were not formally "removed", you are entitled to a new determination if you seek to obtain visitor status again.
You now have proof of an excellent tie to the EC -- you have a good job. Do you have other proof of residence in the UK? I'm not familiar with the UK documents that a citizen of another EC country might have that show residence in the UK -- driver's license, Council taxes, etc? That is also good evidence of a residence in the US.
I hope this helps. It is not all that difficult.
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Feb 13th 2008, 10:00 am #3
johncons
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 9
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Hi,
thank you very much for your answer!
Here is a link, by the way, wich has a picture of the passport etc:
http://johncons.trykker.com/2008/02/...32-pa-engelsk/
I'm not really sure if I understand this, but I wasn't allowed an entry to the USA, because I went there right after my studies in Sunderland, and since I then went to London, and then Holland and Germany.
And then I bought a ticket from Frankfurt to Detroit.
And then I wasn't allowed an entry to the US, since I didn't have a non-US address, as I understand it now.
Thats the meaning of 'a tie', like I understand it now.
So if one haven't got a non-US address, then one shouldn't go to the US, because then you aren't going to be let in to the country.
Thats how I understand it.
I wasn't really aware of this at all.
I had a storage where I had the things I couldn't bring with me to Sunderland.
And I really had a British address as well, since I had really agreed with the Univeristy of Sunderland, that I would stay there untill the summer of 2005.
But there were some problems, with my studiy-finance, and getting the 3rd yeard bachelor computer modules from Sunderland, approved by my home university, HiO, in Oslo.
So I suspect that there could have been something phoney going on with the study-finance and the approveal of the modules.
Anyway, these problems, took a bit of the focus away from the lectures etc.
So I finally recieved my study-finance, in January, about four months late, then I was so behind schedule, that I thought it was smarter to just try to get a job.
So thats why I went to London.
And then there were some problems with some criminal networks, or something like that, there as well, it seemed, so I had to move on.
And after a while, I got a bit tired of these problems, that I didn't really understand, so I thought I could maybe go to the US, because I didn't think I would be having problems with being recognised everywhere, like it seemed a bit like I was having a problem with in Europe.
In Detroit, they said that I couldn't use the visa, that in a way is in the electronic passport that I've got, any longer, since I had no lost that possiblity, due to the mentioned problems.
And there has almost been nothing but problems with government/intelligence, something like that, after this episode, so I suspect that they could be linked.
Also, when I got to Oslo, from Detroit, via Paris, then my suitcase wasn't there.
I had to wait untill the next day for my suitcase.
It appeared then, that some homeland security, or something like that, had withheld my suitcase, since I had a lighter there, together with all my other stuff, from Sunderland.
And also, they said there, in Detroit, that if I didn't go to Oslo, via Paris, or to London (to which I didn't want to go, due to the mentioned problems), then I had to stay in prison there, untill the next day.
I didn't want to start having habbits like going to prison, so I thought it sounded smartest to go to Oslo, even if I think it would have a bit fun to maybe see a bit of the US, on the way to and from prison.
But maybe they would have just put me in a car, from which one couldn't look out.
So I didn't actually have a return-ticket, but I had the study-finance money, from Sunderland.
Because I thought it would be smarter to use the money, to get a new job and a flat etc., than continue, with the models there, since I was so behind schedule then, so I don't really think I would had a chance of passing all the exams anyway.
So I just tried to use my head really, and then contact the University, when I had settled, in London, like I had planned.
But this didn't go like I had planned it, and I had some problems with my face (long story), on top of this as well, so I just wanted to get a way a bit from the problems, so I thought it could be a good idea, to get away from Europe a few months, and then maybe my face would be better, and could try to get a job etc, when I returned, after a few months.
But I didn't really understand, why it seemed, that I was recognised everywhere, it was a bit tirering, thats why I tried to go to the US.
But I didn't really know how to explain all this, with the criminal networks and all to the Imigration Control, I was a bit afraid, that with my luck, I would probably just be sent to Guanatanamo, or something like that, and I didn't really understand what was going on, so I just told about the University, and the study finance, and things like that.
But I guess I should contact, like eg. the American Embassy, or something like that.
But I think that, one maybe should be a bit carefull, about letting some government, finding out, that one haven't got an address, if one go travelling, after ones studies etc., then one could be a bit in problems, if the Government find out that you haven't got 'a tie'.
At least it seems that way to me.
I'm not sure who to discuss this with, because I don't this is something that is official.
So I'm not sure if this is something that the different governments want to discuss.
But it seems to me that Governments take advantage of things like this, and I also think that it can sometimes be annoying.
If it is like it seems to me.
Because, I don't want to complain, but I think that, even if people haven't got an address at the moment.
Even so, I think that they still have human rights.
So I suspect a bit, that if one are a bit unlucky with the Imigration Control, then one can get to situations were ones human rights, aren't looked that carefully after.
At least it seems that way to me.
So maybe other people also could get into similar problems, if they are unlucky with the Imigration Control.
But I guess I should try to bring this up with organisations like Amnesty and Human Rights Watch, etc.
Sorry that I'm writing very much here, I know I can't expect people to read all this, or to answer all my questions, so I understand it if I don't get any replies to this post.
If one are a Norwegian citizen working in Britain, then one have things like a national insurance number, council tax/utillity bills, British bank-account, etc., so I think it sounds smart to bring things like that probably yes, if one wanted to try to go to the US again.
But I really think I would need to contact the American Embassy and here with them.
But thanks anyway for the reply, it had a lot of usefull information in it, so I'll look more at this, and then I'll decide what to do next.
So thanks very much again for the help!
But thanks very much again for the answer, I
Feb 13th 2008, 10:09 am #4
johncons
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 9
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncons
Hi,
I'm really a Nurse living in Britain, but I searched on the internet, regarding some problems I've been having, when I tried to go to the USA, in 2005.
Then I had some problems with the Detroit Imigration Control, and they wrote some text in my passport, and sent me back to Oslo, via Paris.
Here's what was written:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...&id=1059338080
Just now, I searched on the internet, on the text '8 CFR 217.4 (a)'.
And I found this post, on this message-board:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73347
The post-writer, seems to have been having a similar problem as I had, when I tried to go to the US, for a holiday, two or three months, in February 2005.
I wanted to rent a car in Detroit, and drive and see a bit of the country.
But I wasn't let through the passport-control, and I had to sit an answer questions in a room, for several hours.
And I suspect they were calling like, the Norwegian government, and things like that.
I'm not sure exactly what they mean with 'no ties outside of the US'.
But if they were afraid that I would exploit the American welfare system, then I think that was a bit strange, since Norway has like a generous, or what the right word is, welfare system.
But anyway.
I had a rented storage in Oslo, with City Self Storage there.
Is that considered a tie outside of the US, I was wondering.
And I have a grandmother in Norway etc., but I'm not sure if that's considered a tie.
The reason I'm wondering how they define 'a tie', is that I'm a bit worried, that people, who they define, as not having 'a tie', is being played games with, used as 'target guys', etc, by the CIA etc.
So I'm trying to get whatever it is that is going on to stop.
This is a link, where I've been trying to explain what's going on a bit better:
http://johncons.trykker.com/2008/02/...22-pa-engelsk/
So, I would be very if someone knows they define 'a tie', because it's sometimes a bit stressful, with whats going on, and I suspect it could be linked with what happened in the Detroit Imigration Control, or what they are called, in 2005.
So thanks very much in advance for any help!
And I wrote 'Norse', and not 'Nurse'.
I took a back-up, of the post, after I'd submitted it:
http://johncons-mirror.blogspot.com/...ard-still.html
So this harassment-problem, I'm goint to bring up.
It helps showing that there is something going on.
Feb 13th 2008, 10:32 am #5
augigi
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,285
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Erik, if I were you I'd remove the facebook album that has your passport details etc displayed - it's amazing what people can do with your personal details.
Feb 13th 2008, 10:37 am #6
johncons
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 9
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by augigi
Erik, if I were you I'd remove the facebook album that has your passport details etc displayed - it's amazing what people can do with your personal details.
Hi,
yes you're very right, I removed my bank account number already, so I am aware of the problem you're bringing up regarding identity theaft etc.
I'm not sure how it fits with the Imigration-stuff, but nevermind.
Thanks anyway!
Erik
Feb 13th 2008, 11:02 am #7
Tracym
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: NW Chicago suburbs
Posts: 11,259
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Erik, meant most kindly - there are some bits in your previous post that are a bit... unusual. I am wondering if you are feeling quite well, perhaps you might like to seek out a doctor as well, just to make sure that you are ok.
__________________
Tracy
Feb 13th 2008, 11:13 am #8
johncons
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 9
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracym
Erik, meant most kindly - there are some bits in your previous post that are a bit... unusual. I am wondering if you are feeling quite well, perhaps you might like to seek out a doctor as well, just to make sure that you are ok.
I think people shouldnt reply to posts if they haven't got anything to contribute with regarding the subject of the thread.
So I would just like to inform the message-board that I don't really appriciate being f-ed around, like the poster here seems to be trying to, so from now on, I'm not going to reply to harassing posts.
It's seems like people speculate, to bring the focus away from the real subject of the discussion, at that is a menace, or what the right word is again.
It's not really something that should be sought after.
Feb 13th 2008, 11:15 am #9
Tracym
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: NW Chicago suburbs
Posts: 11,259
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncons
I think people shouldnt reply to posts if they haven't got anything to contribute with regarding the subject of the thread.
So I would just like to inform the message-board that I don't really appriciate being f-ed around, like the poster here seems to be trying to, so from now on, I'm not going to reply to harassing posts.
It's seems like people speculate, to bring the focus away from the real subject of the discussion, at that is a menace, or what the right word is again.
It's not really something that should be sought after.
No, I was really trying to be nice. I'm sorry you don't feel that way.
__________________
Tracy
Feb 13th 2008, 11:17 am #10
johncons
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 9
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracym
No, I was really trying to be nice. I'm sorry you don't feel that way.
Keep to the subject.
Don't bring feelings into this.
Feb 13th 2008, 11:32 am #11
Tracym
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: NW Chicago suburbs
Posts: 11,259
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncons
Keep to the subject.
Don't bring feelings into this.
Good luck to you. I hope you find the help you need.
__________________
Tracy
Feb 13th 2008, 11:35 am #12
johncons
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 9
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracym
Good luck to you. I hope you find the help you need.
You are really anoying me.
Please stop acting personal towards people you don't know.
And this is a message-board, not a chat-room.
Feb 13th 2008, 11:40 am #13
ian-mstm
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Location: Kentucky
Posts: 11,910
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncons
Keep to the subject.
Okay... you need to understand that, almost without exception, the US immigration laws are specifically designed to keep non-US citizens *out* of the country. You have no right to enter the US - even as a visitor... it is a privilege. By the way, your "human rights" were not violated just because you were not allowed into the US.
Quote:
And this is a message-board, not a chat-room.
This is a public forum... you are *not* obligated to read any responses you get.
Ian
Feb 13th 2008, 11:48 am #14
johncons
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 9
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ian-mstm
Okay... you need to understand that, almost without exception, the US immigration laws are specifically designed to keep non-US citizens *out* of the country. You have no right to enter the US - even as a visitor... it is a privilege. By the way, your "human rights" were not violated just because you were not allowed into the US.
This is a public forum... you are *not* obligated to read any responses you get.
Ian
'Keep to the subject', wasn't to you.
I'm not obligated to read respones I get.
What kind of nonsense is that?
You are patronising me, and thats harassment, thats illigal.
Stick to the topic, or go f off.
Feb 13th 2008, 11:54 am #15
johncons
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 9
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncons
'Keep to the subject', wasn't to you.
I'm not obligated to read respones I get.
What kind of nonsense is that?
You are patronising me, and thats harassment, thats illigal.
Stick to the topic, or go f off.
These seems like organised attacks by the way.
Definetly something going on.
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Feb 13th 2008, 11:58 am #16
Sue
Administrator
The BE Blog
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Location: NC, USA.
Posts: 7,478
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncons
You are patronising me, and thats harassment, thats illigal.
Stick to the topic, or go f off.
I see no one subjecting you to "harassment" on this forum, and I would ask you not to swear.
Thank you
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Feb 13th 2008, 12:11 pm #17
Marocco
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Location: London
Posts: 285
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Folinskyinla
That said, since you were not formally "removed", you are entitled to a new determination if you seek to obtain visitor status again.
Would the OP be entitled to the VWP now, or would he need to apply for a B1/2 visa?
Feb 13th 2008, 12:42 pm #18
dbj1000
Is it 'cos I is Mac?
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 3,163
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncons
These seems like organised attacks by the way.
Definetly something going on.
Johncons, you are clearly suffering from delusional paranoia. Your talk of government conspiracies, Immigration conspiracies, organized crime, your face being recognized everywhere, harassment etc. is delusional, and you need to seek psychiatric help far more than you need immigration advice.
Oh, and yes I'm sure you'll take offense at this post, tell me to f-off and announce that I'm part of the conspiracy, but that won't change the fact that you need to get medical help.
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The world can only be grasped by action, not by contemplation... the hand is the cutting edge of the mind. - Jacob Bronowski
For every complex problem there is a simple and elegant solution... and it is wrong. - misquoted from H.L. Mencken
Feb 13th 2008, 12:51 pm #19
Tracym
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: NW Chicago suburbs
Posts: 11,259
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbj1000
Johncons, you are clearly suffering from delusional paranoia. Your talk of government conspiracies, Immigration conspiracies, organized crime, your face being recognized everywhere, harassment etc. is delusional, and you need to seek psychiatric help far more than you need immigration advice.
Oh, and yes I'm sure you'll take offense at this post, tell me to f-off and announce that I'm part of the conspiracy, but that won't change the fact that you need to get medical help.
That's what I was trying to gently say. Johncons is almost certainly ineligible to visit the US at present, due to his medical condition.
If that condition can be treated and stabalised, he might be able to visit.
__________________
Tracy
Feb 13th 2008, 1:03 pm #20
hobbes79
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 859
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
I'm going to guess how your POE experience went:
POE Officer: Hi there! And what brings you to the US?
Johncons: I thought I could maybe go to the US, because I didn't think I would be having problems with being recognised everywhere, like it seemed a bit like I was having a problem with in Europe. But I didn't really understand, why it seemed, that I was recognised everywhere, it was a bit tirering, thats why I tried to go to the US.
POE Officer: Alrighty then... huh, come again
Most people say "for a holiday" or "to see relatives" or "to get a hooker in vegas". I think any of those responses would have been better.
That may account for some of your problems getting in. The ties thing probably didn't help matters, but I think they were the least of your worries.
Feb 13th 2008, 1:10 pm #21
Tracym
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: NW Chicago suburbs
Posts: 11,259
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes79
I'm going to guess how your POE experience went:
POE Officer: Hi there! And what brings you to the US?
Johncons: I thought I could maybe go to the US, because I didn't think I would be having problems with being recognised everywhere, like it seemed a bit like I was having a problem with in Europe. But I didn't really understand, why it seemed, that I was recognised everywhere, it was a bit tirering, thats why I tried to go to the US.
POE Officer: Alrighty then... huh, come again
Most people say "for a holiday" or "to see relatives" or "to get a hooker in vegas". I think any of those responses would have been better.
That may account for some of your problems getting in. The ties thing probably didn't help matters, but I think they were the least of your worries.
He is ill I believe, he can't help it. I hope things work out for him.
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Tracy
Feb 13th 2008, 1:13 pm #22
ian-mstm
Kind Sanctimonious Prick
ian-mstm's Blog
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Posts: 11,910
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncons
You are patronising me, and thats harassment, thats illigal.
Clearly, you need to learn more about US law and what is or isn't considered harassment.
Ian
Feb 13th 2008, 1:37 pm #23
ian-mstm
Kind Sanctimonious Prick
ian-mstm's Blog
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 11,910
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncons
These seems like organised attacks by the way.
I'll say this... you do seem to have your share of adventures! I invite the gentle readers of this forum to read the following links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Johncons ... something about pizza. The discussion at the bottom is really interesting!
and
http://johncons.blog.com/2008/1/ ... scroll down and read the entry: "Re: Inhumane treatment from the Government".
Sad really... very sad!
Ian
Feb 13th 2008, 2:13 pm #24
AlanR
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 484
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
Best entertainment I've had all day! But it is early in the morning here on the West Coast (0714).
Feb 13th 2008, 2:15 pm #25
Rete
A Bit Daffy Is All
Super Moderator
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 27,368
Re: Problems with US imigration control, 'no ties outside US'.
This thread is officially closed.
Innlegg
