To: Michael.Rimer@legalservices.gov.uk Michael Rimer
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 17:31:10 +0000
Subject: Re: Your e-mail (complaint about a duty solicitor)
Hi,
well I've sent both of the resolution-form complaints to the law-firms.
So I have certainly contacted both law-firms regarding the complaints.
Like I've also explaned in earlier e-mail to yourself.
I'm not sure if I think it's to much to ask, to get some more information
about
the general complaint process surounding duty solicitor cases, involving
unprofessional conduct from law-firms.
As I would suspect that information surrounding the complaint-process,
should
be puplicly known.
You told me to send you the e-mails if I had recieved legal aid founding.
I told you that I hadn't received any legal aid founding as of yet, but that
I
was still wondering how to forward with the complaints.
And this I haven't recieved any answer to.
I think members of the puclic should be allowed to get information about the
duty
solicitor complaint process, so thats why I'm asking about this again.
About where I can find general information about the duty solicitors
complaint
process, in cases like the ones I've mentioned.
So I hope it's possible for you to tell me this.
Thank you very much in advance for your help!
Yours sincerely,
Erik Ribssskog
On 11/9/07, Michael Rimer
>
> Mr Ribsskog
>
> You have not raised any fresh issues in your email to me. I have told
> you what you should do. In not one email have you said whether you have
> raised your concerns with the firms in question. I am not able to add
> anything further to what I have said already.
>
> Your sincerely
>
> Michael Rimer
>
> >>> "Erik Ribsskog"
> Hi,
>
> the involvement of the Law Society regarding these complaints, is also
> being
> dealt with
> by the Legal Services Ombudsman.
>
> The cases, that the complaints are surrounding, are cases that have
> received
> any
> legal aid founding to this date.
>
> What I'm simply saying, is that the Law Society, told me that I should
> complain to you,
> some weeks ago.
>
> And even if the dates for the contact with the law-firms are some
> months
> back, I've dealing
> with each complaint regurarely.
>
> It's just that I'm being passed around from one organisation to the
> next,
> and between
> different people and levels in the different organisations.
>
> So I was just wondering how is it, that one are supposed to go forward,
> in
> general, if
> one wants to complain about law-firms, regarding unproffesional
> conduct, in
> conection
> with the duty solicitors program, regardless if any legal aid founding
> has
> been given
> by the LSC as of yet.
>
> If you think I can complain to you, regardless if there hasn't been
> any
> legal aid founding
> being given by the LSC, than I can send you all the e-mails, from the
> correspondence
> with the Law Society, and the law-firms.
>
> Since there has been quite long-lasting processes surounding this,
> then
> there are quite
> a few e-mails.
>
> And these e-mails are also being looked at by the LSO, like I
> explained.
>
> So it would be very fine, if you could explain to me how complaints
> about
> unprofessonal
> conduct, from law-firms, in connection with the duty solicitor
> programme
> (regardless if
> any legal aid founding has been given as of yet), usually are being
> reported
> by the
> complainant.
>
> It's the general complaint-process that I was a bit curious about.
>
> Maybe there is an informaiton web-page on your website, explaining
> about
> this?
>
> I'm sure I'm not the first person complaining about unprofesional
> conduct
> like this,
> from law-firms in connection with the duty solicitors programme.
>
> So I'm sure that there has to be a generall complaint-process rutine,
> regarding
> how complaint-cases like this, should be dealt with.
>
> It's this information that I'm looking for, and I would be very
> grateful if
> it would be
> possible for you to enlighten me regarding this.
>
> Thank you very much for your help in advance!
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Erik Ribsskog
>
>
>
>
> On 11/9/07, Michael Rimer
> >
> > Dear Mr Ribsskog
> >
> > You have complained to the LSC, and I have suggested that you
> redirect
> > your complaint to the firms in question. I am afraid to say that
> the
> > way that you have expressed your complaints in word docs you sent me
> is
> > not very clear. I have read each a number of times and it is not
> > abundantly plain what it is you wish to achieve by making a
> complaint.
> > Furthermore, the matters you complain of date back to May this year
> and
> > it is now November.
> >
> > Because it is not very clear what exactly happened or didn't happen
> > when you saw or spoke to advisers from EAD and from Morcroft, I
> cannot
> > see clearly whether you received advice from them which was paid for
> by
> > the LSC. Rather than reiterate your complaint, if you could scan any
> > correspondence you have received from either or both solicitors,
> that
> > may assist.
> >
> > I am not proposing to investigate your complaint any further. If
> you
> > are able to send me correspondence received from the solicitors in
> > question, so as to satisfy me that they did work on your behalf for
> > which they were paid from the legal aid fund, then again, I would
> > suggest that you raise your complaint again with the firm. Depending
> on
> > what they said, I might think it appropriate to refer this the
> relevant
> > firm's account manager at the Liverpool LSC office.
> >
> > Yours sincerely
> >
> > Michael Rimer
> >
> > >>> "Erik Ribsskog"
> > Hi,
> >
> > thank you very much for your e-mail!
> >
> > The Law Society, told me (in e-mails I've forwarded to the LSC with
> my
> > previous e-mails), that
> > if one wanted to complain (formally), about law-firms in connection
> > with the
> > duty solicitors
> > programme, then one should complain to the LSC.
> >
> > So I was wondering if what you are writing to me, is that this isn't
> > right?
> >
> > Are you telling me, that there isn't any formal way of complaining
> > about
> > profesional misconduct,
> > against law-firms, in connection with the duty solicitors programme,
> > (other
> > than to the companies
> > themselves).
> >
> > This because, I have sent Law Society resolution-form comlaints to
> > both
> > law-firms.
> >
> > But both law-firms, are saying, that I'm not a client with them,
> since
> > they
> > only helped me in connection
> > with the duty sollicitors programme, and then I have no right to
> > complain,
> > since I'm not a client of the law-firm.
> >
> > So that option is already tryed.
> >
> > I was wondering if there are any Governement organisations that one
> > could
> > complain about this to.
> >
> > And also, who could give me advice about this?
> >
> > Thank you very much for your help in advance!
> >
> > Yours sincerely,
> >
> > Erik Ribsskog
> >
> >
> > On 11/9/07, Michael Rimer
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Mr Ribsskog
> > >
> > > If you are unhappy with the service you received with the firms of
> > > solicitors you had dealings with, then I repeat, that you should
> > write a
> > > clear letter to the firms outlining briefly what you think they
> > didn't
> > > do properly.
> > >
> > > I am not in a postition to be able to advise you further on this.
> > >
> > > Yours sincerely
> > >
> > > Michael Rimer
> > >
> > > >>> "Erik Ribsskog"
> >>>
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if you have read the complaints thorowly enought
> then,
> > > because it has a been a problem with lying and breaching of
> > > agreements.
> > >
> > > And giving wrong advice over the phone.
> > >
> > > This is unprofessional conduct, and it has been examples of this
> in
> > > both
> > > complaints.
> > >
> > > So I was wondering if you please could tell me how I should go
> > > forward,
> > > if I wanted to complain about legal firm in regarding
> unprofessional
> > > conduct
> > > in conection with the duty solicitior programme.
> > >
> > > Thank you very much for your help in advance!
> > >
> > > Yours sincerely,
> > >
> > > Erik Ribsskog
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/8/07, Michael Rimer
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Mr Ribsskog
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for the further information. Your complaints are of a
> > lack
> > > of
> > > > what you perceive as being acceptable customer service from each
> > > (not
> > > > being told who was dealing with your case, having meetings
> > cancelled
> > > and
> > > > not rescheduled, being passed from one person to the next and
> > having
> > > to
> > > > explain your case to each one, all of which can be frustrating
> > when
> > > you
> > > > have your own legal issues as a primary concern).
> > > >
> > > > May I suggest that you raise your concerns with the firms
> > directly.
> > > It
> > > > may assist if you shorten your accounts by summarising the main
> > > points
> > > > of complaint, in order to get the text onto a one page letter.
> > > >
> > > > It might be that the person who dealt with your complaint at the
> > > Legal
> > > > Complaints Service thought, as I did at first, that you were
> > > concerned
> > > > by the behaviour of a criminal duty solicitor. However, it seems
> > as
> > > > though it relates to an employment dispute. In any event, I
> think
> > > that
> > > > you ought to be referring your concerns to the firms, as it is
> > they
> > > who
> > > > ought to be listening to the points you make and considering
> > whether
> > > > they need to take a fresh look at their customer service.
> > > >
> > > > Your sincerely
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > >>> "Erik Ribsskog"
> > >>>
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > thank you very much for your answer!
> > > >
> > > > Well, in April, I called the Law Society about the problems, and
> > > they
> > > > adviced me
> > > > to bring the complaints through their complaint-procedure.
> > > >
> > > > Now, about six months later, the Law Society tells me that it is
> > the
> > > > LSC,
> > > > who
> > > > should have dealt with these complaints.
> > > >
> > > > The complaints are regarding poor service and unprofessional
> > > conduct,
> > > > from
> > > > law-firms,
> > > > in conection with duty solicitor meetings, being set up by the
> > CAB.
> > > >
> > > > I'm going to enclose a copy of the two complaints that I sent
> the
> > > Law
> > > > Society.
> > > >
> > > > One complaint regarding the Morecrofts Solicitors firm, and one
> > > > complaint
> > > > regarding
> > > > the EAD solicitors firm.
> > > >
> > > > So I'm looking forward to hearing more from you, regarding how I
> > > should
> > > > go
> > > > forward
> > > > with these complaints.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance for the help!
> > > >
> > > > Yours sincerely,
> > > >
> > > > Erik Ribsskog
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 11/8/07, Michael Rimer
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Mr Ribsskog
> > > > >
> > > > > Your email has been referred to me as you appear to have had
> > some
> > > > > difficulties in finding out where to make a complaint about a
> > duty
> > > > > solicitor who assisted you recently. I am a lawyer in the
> LSC's
> > > > head
> > > > > office legal department.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not clear from your email what it is exactly that you
> were
> > > > unhappy
> > > > > about the duty solicitor who assisted you. Did the duty
> > solicitor
> > > > see
> > > > > you at a police station? Or did the duty solicitor see you at
> > the
> > > > > magistrates' court? If you outlined very briefly the nature
> of
> > > your
> > > > > complaint about the solicitor, i.e., what he did that you
> > thought
> > > > was
> > > > > wrong, or what he didn't do that you think he ought to have
> > done,
> > > > that
> > > > > would be helpful.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am mindful to suggest that you make a complaint to the firm
> > > > directly.
> > > > > Usually, a complaint against a solicitor is best made to the
> > > senior
> > > > or
> > > > > managing partner at the solicitor's firm. Otherwise, the
> > solicitor
> > > > whom
> > > > > you are unhappy about wont know what it is he has done wrong,
> in
> > > > your
> > > > > view. Depending on the firm's response, the Customer Service
> > > Team
> > > > > (whom you originally emailed about this) will be in a better
> > > position
> > > > to
> > > > > say whether your complaint should be referred to the firm's
> > > account
> > > > > manager at the Legal Services Commission, or whether it should
> > be
> > > > dealt
> > > > > with by the Law Society's Legal Complaint Service.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Rimer
> > > > > Legal Adviser
> > > > > Corporate Legal Team
> > > > > Legal Services Commission
> > > > > 85 Gray's Inn Road,
> > > > > London WC1X 8TX
> > > > >
> > > > > DX 328 Chancery Lane
> > > > >
> > > > > Note: The email may contain confidential legal advice which is
> > > > likely
> > > > > to be subject to legal professional privilege and which may be
> > > > exempt
> > > > > from disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act. Please
> > > contact
> > > > the
> > > > > author or the Commission's Legal Director to seek
> authorisation
> > > > before
> > > > > disclosing this email outside the Commission."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >>> "Erik Ribsskog"
> 02:25
> > > >>>
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I can't see that I have recieved an answer to this e-mail yet,
> > > thats
> > > > > why I'm
> > > > > trying to send it again.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yours sincerely,
> > > > >
> > > > > Erik Ribsskog
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > From: Erik Ribsskog
> > > > > Date: Oct 19, 2007 4:36 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Your e-mail
> > > > > To: Legal LSC
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > thank you very much for your answer.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will now try to summarise the corespondce I've been having
> > with
> > > > you
> > > > > and
> > > > > Simon Williams from the Legal Complaints Service.
> > > > >
> > > > > Simon Williams (The Legal Complaints Service) says that I
> should
> > > > > contact the
> > > > > LSC to complain about
> > > > > a duty solicitor.
> > > > >
> > > > > And you (The LSC) are saying that I should contact The Legal
> > > > > Complaints
> > > > > Service to complain about
> > > > > a duty solicitor.
> > > > >
> > > > > So I'm not sure how to conclude this summary.
> > > > >
> > > > > Could you please confirm again who I should contact if I want
> to
> > > > > formally
> > > > > complain about poor service
> > > > > and uprofessional conduct from a law-firm in connection with
> the
> > > > duty
> > > > > solicitors scheme.
> > > > >
> > > > > Because Simon Williams from The Legal Complaints Service is
> > > writing
> > > > > this in
> > > > > a letter from 26/9:
> > > > >
> > > > > 'Here, a meeting under the duty solicitors programme is
> unlikely
> > > to
> > > > be
> > > > > something done under a retainer
> > > > > (that is, a relationship between solicitor and client), as
> duty
> > > > > solicitors
> > > > > are those who provide assistance
> > > > > to those who are without representation
> > > > >
> > > > > [...]
> > > > >
> > > > > As you are not a client of EAD, this office is unable to
> > consider
> > > > your
> > > > > complaint. I will, therefore, take
> > > > > steps to close this file'.
> > > > >
> > > > > So it's obvious that the Legal Complaints Service aren't
> looking
> > > at
> > > > > complaints against law-firms in
> > > > > connection to the duty solicitors scheme.
> > > > >
> > > > > Williams, write in an e-mail from 2/10:
> > > > >
> > > > > ' *Q2: If not, then who is it one are supposed to complain to,
> > > about
> > > > > poor
> > > > > service/unprofessional* *conduct, by law-firms, in connection
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > Dury
> > > > > Solicitors scheme?*
> > > > >
> > > > > I have looked into this matter and would suggest that you
> refer
> > to
> > > > > this
> > > > > website:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.legalservices.gov.uk/aboutus/regions/liverpool_information.asp
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It contains information and contact details of the Merseyside
> > Duty
> > > > > Solicitors scheme and I hope that you will find it useful.
> > > > >
> > > > > I should also note that the Legal Services Commission is an
> > > > > organisation
> > > > > wholly separate from the Law Society and, if you have any
> > specific
> > > > > questions
> > > > > in relation to the procedures, you should direct them to the
> > LSC,
> > > > > rather
> > > > > than our Office.'.
> > > > >
> > > > > So he's saying that the LCS should deal with the complaint.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is this correct?
> > > > >
> > > > > Who could I ask for advice/help regarding this, since I'm
> being
> > in
> > > a
> > > > > way
> > > > > 'thrown around' here, from one organisation to the
> > > > > other.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, you are writing that:
> > > > >
> > > > > 'In regards to our customer-helpline, it is more than likely
> > that
> > > > > there
> > > > > was a miscommunication or misunderstanding between you and my
> > > > > colleague
> > > > > as a list of law firms can be accessed easily through a search
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > CLS Legal Adviser Directory.'.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So you are writing that since you have an online directory,
> then
> > > it
> > > > > can't be
> > > > > something wrong
> > > > > in regards to your customer-helpline's advice.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can't see that it's an excuse for giving wrong advice
> (giving
> > me
> > > > the
> > > > > phone-numbers to law-firms
> > > > > in Wales), I can't see that this can be excused by you also
> > having
> > > > an
> > > > > online
> > > > > directory.
> > > > >
> > > > > What is the point of having a customer-helpline, if one can't
> > > trust
> > > > > the
> > > > > advice?
> > > > >
> > > > > Since like you are writing, you also have an online directory,
> > so
> > > > this
> > > > > fact
> > > > > means that any mistakes
> > > > > the helpline makes, must be misunderstandings.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't see the logic in this.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think you must be mistaking.
> > > > >
> > > > > Even if you have an online directory, I don't see how this
> > > explains
> > > > > mistakes
> > > > > from your helpline.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's not a valid excuse I mean.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I go to Tesco and say I got the wrong change back.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then Tesco can't say that, of it must be a misunderstanding
> > > because
> > > > you
> > > > > have
> > > > > paid by debit-card.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thats the same reasoning to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > So it would be very fine, if you could please confirm that
> I've
> > > > > understood
> > > > > your excuse right.
> > > > >
> > > > > Because in that case, I don't think it's a valid excuse, and I
> > > would
> > > > > please
> > > > > like to complain about it.
> > > > >
> > > > > I hope that this is alright!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you very much for your answer again!
> > > > >
> > > > > Yours sincerely,
> > > > >
> > > > > Erik Ribsskog
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/19/07, Legal LSC
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Our ref: KPL/MISC/07/07/70 (5)
> > > > > > Date: 19 October 2007
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Mr Ribbskog,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for your e-mail on 16 October 2007.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You are always welcome to put forward an informal complaint
> > > > regarding
> > > > > a
> > > > > > duty solicitor's poor service and/or misconduct, in
> connection
> > > > with
> > > > > > the Local Duty Solicitors Scheme, to the Account Manager of
> > our
> > > > > relevant
> > > > > > regional office. They will be happy to investigate your
> > > complaint
> > > > > and
> > > > > > will communicate with the duty solicitor involved to clarify
> > the
> > > > > areas
> > > > > > of your complaint and endeavor to resolve the issue.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, it is not within our capacity or powers to enforce
> > any
> > > > > actions
> > > > > > upon the relevant duty solicitor in regards to their poor
> > > service
> > > > > and/or
> > > > > > misconduct.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For complaints on the poor service and/or misconduct of any
> > > > > solicitor
> > > > > > to be dealt with formally and with enforceable actions, you
> > must
> > > > > direct
> > > > > > your complaints to the Law Society's Legal Complaints
> Service
> > > > (LCS),
> > > > > > who are an independent complaints handling body that deals
> > with
> > > > all
> > > > > > formal complaints against solicitors. Even though they are
> > part
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Law Society, they operate independently.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Further details on the LCS are available at the following
> > > website:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.legalcomplaints.org.uk/home.page
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Both the above options are available to you and it is your
> > > > decision
> > > > > on
> > > > > > where you want to direct your complaint and how it is
> > resolved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In regards to our customer-helpline, it is more than likely
> > that
> > > > > there
> > > > > > was a miscommunication or misunderstanding between you and
> my
> > > > > colleague
> > > > > > as a list of law firms can be accessed easily through a
> search
> > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > CLS Legal Adviser Directory.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hope the above is of assistance to you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yours sincerely
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ka Poh Ling
> > > > > > Central Customer Services Unit
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ***********************************************************************************
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> > > > record
> > > > > and
> > > > > > retain any incoming and outgoing emails for security reasons
> > and
> > > > for
> > > > > > monitoring internal compliance with the Legal Services
> > > Commission
> > > > > policy on
> > > > > > staff use. Email monitoring and/or blocking software may be
> > > used
> > > > and
> > > > > > content may be read. You have a responsibility to ensure
> laws
> > > are
> > > > > not
> > > > > > broken when writing or forwarding emails and their contents.
> > No
> > > > > contracts
> > > > > > can be entered into on our behalf by email.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the
> author
> > > and
> > > > do
> > > > > not
> > > > > > necessarily represent those of the Legal Services
> Commission.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Legal Services Commission checks all mails and
> attachments
> > > for
> > > > > known
> > > > > > viruses; however, you are advised that you open any
> > attachments
> > > at
> > > > > your own
> > > > > > risk.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ***********************************************************************************
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ************************************************************************************
> > > > > Disclaimer
> > > > >
> > > > > This e-mail (and any attachment(s)) is private and intended
> > solely
> > > > for the
> > > > > use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> Its
> > > > unauthorised
> > > > > use, disclosure, storage or copying is not permitted. If you
> are
> > > not
> > > > the
> > > > > intended recipient please destroy all copies and inform the
> > sender
> > > by
> > > > return
> > > > > e-mail.
> > > > >
> > > > > Internet e-mail is not a secure medium, as messages can be
> > > > intercepted and
> > > > > read by someone else. Please bear this in mind when deciding
> > > whether
> > > > to send
> > > > > information by e-mail. Postal addresses for the Legal Services
> > > > Commission
> > > > > are available from
> > > > http://www.legalservices.gov.uk/aboutus/regions.asp
> > > > >
> > > > > The Legal Services Commission reserves the right to monitor,
> > > record
> > > > and
> > > > > retain any incoming and outgoing e-mails for security reasons
> > and
> > > > for
> > > > > monitoring internal compliance with the Legal Services
> > Commission
> > > > policy on
> > > > > staff use. E-mail monitoring and/or blocking software may be
> > used
> > > and
> > > > > content may be read. You have a responsibility to ensure laws
> > are
> > > not
> > > > broken
> > > > > when writing or forwarding e-mails and their contents. No
> > > contracts
> > > > can be
> > > > > entered into on our behalf by e-mail.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author
> > and
> > > do
> > > > not
> > > > > necessarily represent those of the Legal Services Commission.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Legal Services Commission checks all e-mails and
> attachments
> > > for
> > > > known
> > > > > viruses, however, you are advised that you open any
> attachments
> > at
> > > > your own
> > > > > risk.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ************************************************************************************
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Innlegg
