From: England.moderators@bbc.co.uk England
To: eribsskog@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:57:47 +0100
Subject: Your BBC Posting has been removed

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Subject:
The use of Negative Reinforcement as a Management-method at the Arvato Microsoft Scandinavian Product Activation in Liverpool.

Posting:
When I was working at the Arvato Microsoft Scandinavian Product Activation in Liverpool, I had a meeting with one of the team-leaders on the campaign.

I was wondering why we, (I was working as a regular Contact Centre Representative there), and I was wondering why we got lines like 'NN, you're on wrap-up', shouted at us across the tables, from the team-leaders.

Then I got to hear that this was something that the team-leaders had been thought during team-leader training.

The team-leader I was in the meeting with, told me, that they had been trained using '[negative] reinforcement', during the team-leader training.

She explained to me, that she wouldn't stop with the shouting/complaining/'giving stick', the way she did, because this was the way they had been trained to lead the campaign.

Here is a quote from the summary from this meeting:

'I also brought up the situation with the wrap-up meeting we had some weeks earlier, where
we agreed on that I would work on gradually bettering the wrap-up time, but that she then
forgot this agreement, and the next day acted like this meeting hadnt been taking place
at all, and continued to shout 'You're on wrap-up' if the wrap-up time exceeded 5 seconds.

Vivian explained that this was call reinforcement, and that the team-leaders were trained
to use reinforcement as a way of solving problems, like the problem with agents being
to long time on wrap-up between the calls. So she wouldnt stop doing this, because she
had been trained to do her job this way.

NEGATIVE REINFORCEMENT

I hadnt heard about reinforcement on the management/organisation modules I had studied on
upper secondary and university-level, and neighter had I heard about it on the management-
courses I had participated on while I was working as a manager in Norway.

So when I got home on the day we had the meeting, I searched for 'reinforcement' on the
internet. I found from how Vivian described it in the meeting, that this way of sorting
problems was called 'negative reinforcement'.

I couldnt find very much on how this was being used in management, but from what I found
it seemed like it was more used as a way of training dogs, and that it was known to make
the dogs nervous.

Line says that they were told to do it this way, because if they did it this way, then the agents
would do the job the way the team-leaders wanted.'.

Link: http://johncons-mirror.blogspot.com/2007/10/enclosure-7.html

My issue, regarding this, was that when I was searching on the term 'negative reinforcement', on the internet, then it mostly appeared links that had to do with the training of animals, like dogs and horses. (And not so much with management-theory):

Link: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=negative+reinforcement&meta=cr%3DcountryUK%7CcountryGB

And, the fact that the team-leaders are screaming things like 'You're on wrap-up', to the CCR representatives.

I think this is a bit impolite, because the places were people are seated, are up to the region of 5-10 meters from were the team-leader is sitting shouting.

So I remember I myself thought this practice was a bit inpolite towards the representatives.

And also, I thought it was interfering in the work.

That is, if one are sitting, and writing some notes, or if one are loging the latest call.

The latest call from when someone has called in to activate Windows or Office etc.

Then one had five seconds to log the call and to prepare for the next call.

So sometimes one ran out of time, and sometimes, one also wanted to have a zip of water inbetween the calls, so sometimes five seconds could be maybe a bit to little time.

But the point is, that when the call wasn't a regular call. That is, if the call lasted for longer than about five minutes, then one had to log the call on a form as well as on the screen.

And if it was a company-call, a Microsoft customer, then it could be that one had to write some notes down, since these calls sometimes were a bit more complex than the regular calls.

And also since there was a lot of types of agreements, like Select-agreement, Open-agreement, etc.

There were meny combinations of different agreements and products, so sometimes, one happened to write down some notes, and also send e-mails to the line-managers about the activation.

So if one were busy doing things like this, then I think the shouting was sometimes interfering a bit with the other work.

Because, often, it wouldn't be possible to do work-tasks like this, while one were answering the next call simultaniously.

Because one needed to consentrate on the loging and the writing og notes and e-mails.

So then it interfered a bit when someone shouted at me: 'Erik, you're on wrap-up'. At least I remember that I thought this personally.

Because then I lost my concentration, and my awarenes of what I was doing. And I sometimes got a bit stressed, and I maybe started thinking about things regarding the organisation of the campaign instead.

And I also think that this practice is a bit condescend.

That is, from the team-leader to the representative. It seems to me, that one are shouting like this, then it means that one thinks that the representative isn't using his time in a meaningful way. That is, it means that the representative is doing something wrong.

I tried telling them, that we knew from before, that the wrap-up time was five seconds, and that they didn't really need to shout that out, because we already knew this from before.

And when one used more time than five seconds, it was because it was needed to finish the work-tasks.

But when they were shouting, then I think it means that they didn't belive the representative would be able to manage the time for the work-tasks themselves, in a reasonble way.

So then I guess it means that the representatives was looked at as to be thoughtless and without the ability to act reasonable.

I thought this meant that the representatives, were looked down upon, in regards to the issue of being able to manage their own work-time in a meaningful way.

So I myself, remember, that I was thinking that this practice was a bit condescend.

I used to work as a store-manager in Norway, and in conection with that, I had a few courses in practical management etc.

And I also had some modules in management and organisation, from upper secondary school level, and also from university level.

But I can't remember, that we were taught were much about 'negative reinforcement' in those modules and couses.

So I was wondering if someone maybe had some knowledge, regarding where negative reinforcement fits in, in relation to the management-theory field.

I think that management is an interesting field, so I think it would be very fine if someone have the time to contribute a bit to the thread on this.

I myself, think that this management-method, can maybe sometimes seem a bit harassing, but I think it would be very interesting to also hear what other people think about this.

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From: England.moderators@bbc.co.uk England
To: eribsskog@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:57:48 +0100
Subject: Your BBC Posting has been removed

Dear BBC Community member,

Thank you for contributing to a BBC community site. Unfortunately we've had to remove your content below because it contravened one of the House Rules.

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Subject:
Problems with the CAB.

Posting:
I've been having some problems with the CAB, and the CAB complaint process.

I sent the CAB a complaint at the end of May, but then my local CAB, didn't answer the complaint within the due time, so I had to contact the Complaints & Policy Officer again.

I sent her an e-mail about this, and later also a reminder, but I didn't get an answer from her eighter.

I couldn't manage to find who that was her line-manager on the CAB website, and I since they were supposed to have contacted me back three times then, (one time for the complaint from the local CAB, and the Complaints and Policy Officer was supposed to have contacted me back twice, one time for each e-mail.)

So since I didn't get any answer, and since I couldn't find the line-manager on the CAB website, then I decided to send an e-mail to the Chief Executive there, since I wasn't sure who else to send it to. (And I also thought it was a bit serious that neighter my local CAB or the Complaints and Policy Officer contacted me back).

But I didn't get an answer from the Chief Executive eighter, so I waited about 14 days, and then I sent a reminder.

About one week, after I had sent the reminder, I recieved an automatic answer e-mail.

It said that the Chief Executive would contact me back around the end of the month, (August), when he was back from holiday.

I thought it was a bit strange that the automatic e-mail message used about one week to reply to e-mail.

At least I thought that now, when I looked at the e-mails again earlier today.

I was bit more busy at the time, but I remeber I didn't think of it as a regular automatic message, when I received the message, due to it being sent about one week later, than the e-mail it was answering.

So, I remeber I reckoned, that some person had actually sent the message. (That seemed logical to me at the time at least).

But when the month of August had passed, I still didn't recieve any further e-mails from the Chief Executive, but I recieved finally an answer to my complaint from my local CAB.

If my local CAB, had answer me within the 20 workdays time-limit, then I should have recieved their answer around 29/6.

Instead, I actually recieved their answer on 6/9, so it was more than two months delayed.

So, to the questions:

I wasn't completely satisfied with answer from the CAB, on the complaint, but I've been wondering a bit, since I've been in contact with the Chief Executive at the CAB, and since also the CAB is a charity, then I'm not sure if it would be inpolite of me to continue to complain.

I mean, since the CAB is a charity, then one haven't really got any rights, in the same way as if one are complaining to a part of the Government who are obligated by law on the subject you are complaining about.

So I was wondering, if I still should complain further then, to the CAB, when I've already been in contact with the Chief Executive there.

Also, I recieved the answer from them, about four weeks ago, and it says in the e-mail, that it is possible for me to contact 'The Chair', at Liverpool Central CAB, if I still remain dissatisfied.

But I was wondering about how long time one have got, before it is to late to do this.

I know that the CAB was about 50 days late in anwering me, but I'm not sure how long I've got myself to answer them back.

And I'm not that used to sending e-mails to Chief Executives, or to complain to charities, so I've been a bit in doubt on how to go further with this.

So I was hoping that someone on the message-board, would have some advice on how to go forward with this.

So it would be very fine if someone have got the time to look at this.

I'm also wondering how I should go forward with the problem surrounding that I haven't been contacted back, on two occations from the Complaints & Policy Officer, and also on two occations from the Chief Executive.

Because I think it seems a bit strange, that the organisation very often don't reply to e-mails, and also uses very long time to investigate the complaint.

I thought it was bit strange that the organisation, should have so many problems with the complaint, so I was wondering if this possilbly could be in some way connected with the complaint itself, and also how should go forward with this, how I should go forward if I wanted to know what cause of the problems.

So I hope that someone have the time to have a look at this, since I think that things should be dealt with profesionally by an organisation like the CAB, so I think it would be very fine if someone have the time to have a look at this!

Here are the links for the correspondense and the complaint with enclosures.

Correspondence:

http://johncons.blog.co.uk/2007/10/05/correspondence_cab~3088354

Complaint:

Part 1:
http://johncons.blog.co.uk/2007/10/05/explanation_cab_part~3088262

Part 2:
http://johncons.blog.co.uk/2007/10/05/explanation_cab_part~3088250

Part 3:
http://johncons.blog.co.uk/2007/10/05/explanation_cab_part~3088235

The enclosures can be found in the first entries of the entries in this link:

http://johncons.blog.co.uk/2007/10/

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From: England.moderators@bbc.co.uk England
To: eribsskog@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:57:48 +0100
Subject: Your BBC Posting has been removed

Dear BBC Community member,

Thank you for contributing to a BBC community site. Unfortunately we've had to remove your content below because it contravened one of the House Rules.

Postings to BBC messageboards will be removed if they:

*Break the law, or condone or encourage unlawful activity. This includes defamation and contempt of court.

You can find out more about Defamation at http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/hub/HouseRules-Defamation
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Please note that anyone who seriously or repeatedly breaks the House Rules may have action taken against their account.

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URL of content (now removed):
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Subject:
The use of Negative Reinforcement as a Management-method at the Arvato Microsoft Scandinavian Product Activation in Liverpool.

Posting:
At least the team-leader in the meeting, refered to it as reinforcement, which they had learned at team-leader training.

Well the 'team leader' was using the word incorrectly. This team leader training sounds pretty cowboyish. No management theory would advocate this kind of behaviour. It is bullying and illegal.

I was in contact, with the Merseyside Police, about these problems, and other problems, which seems clear to me are harassment, in January.

But the police just sent me on to the CAB, who sent me on to a solicitor, who didn't accept founding from the 'legal aid scheme'.

And another law-firm, canceled a duty solicitors meeting, regarding advice about the legal aid scheme.

And I've sent complaints to the Law Society, I've contacted the LCS, but they had some problems finding the e-mails in their e-mail system.

I've complained about how the Merseyside Police has been dealing with the case, to the ipcc.

The Merseyside Police, declined to investigate, so I sent an appeal, which has been upheld, to the ipcc.

And I've also contact a few organisations, and the Norwegian Consulate in Liverpool, the Norwegian Embassy, the Norwegian Special Police, 'Kripos', since this case seems to be linked with an organised crime case, which the Norwegian Embassy, has adviced me to contact the police in Britain and Norway about, if I want them to cooperate on the case. (Which I've done).

But I haven't managed to get much progress on the case.

Some of the documents for the case, are on a blog, in connection with a complaint sent to the CAB:

http://johncons-mirror.blogspot.com/

The documents, can be found, in the folders: 'Enclosures 1-25', 'Enclosure A-B', 'Enclosure I-XII', 'Enclosure new1-new8' and in the file 'Explanation CAB'.

The files can be found, in the menu, a bit down, on the right side of the screen, in the blog.

The file, from this thread, where the 'negative reinforcement' issue, and other issues are brought up, are in the file 'enclosure 7'.

This enclosure, was also included, in the files which I gave the police in January, but they told me it was an employement matter, and sent me to the CAB.

The CAB, and the legal firm, they set me up to meet in a duty solicitors meeting, failed to inform me, that the law firm, didn't accept founding from the 'legal aid' scheme, so this problem, that the law firm didn't accept this founding, made me send a complaint to the Law Society.

The Law Society, adviced me, that I should send a complaint through their complaint procedure, about this company, and another law-firm.

But now, many months later, it has been explained to me, that these companies, shouldn't have been complained about to the Law Society, they should have been complained about to the LCS, since the problems with poor service/unprofessional conduct etc, appeared in connection with the duty solicitor scheme.

So now I'm back to 'square one' again, so to speak, and I've been adviced, by the LCS, to contact Merseyside Employement Law, about the possibilities, to get help with bringing up the case, under the legal aid scheme.

So I've been sending Merseyside Employment Law, three e-mails, in the last couple of weeks, but I haven't managed to get a reply from them yet.

But what I was wondering about, was, if you know any smart way, for me to explain, to the law-firm, like in a summary in an e-mail etc., how I should explain to them, about this problem with the use of negative reinforcement etc., discussed in this thread.

Do you know any smart way, in which one could summarise this, in the context, on eg. which laws that are breached, and how to explain the practice that I described as 'negative reinforcement'.

Is it just called bullying? And you would coincidentaly know how I could explain, to the law company, about how the pracsis breached the laws, in a way that would make the law company understand what I'm meaning, in an easy to grasp way?

I think it would be very fine if someone has some advice on this, and also if anyone have some advice, on how I should go forward with case.

So thanks very much for any help in regards to this!

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From: davidhjort@msn.com hallstein david hjort
To: eribsskog@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:15:57 +0100
Subject: O'store guru, veileder, mehsias, ypersteprest, mentor, sjef, den store høvding

no vart du skræmt ja.... bare kødder står til lenge siden sist osv tenkte
jeg skulle si hei osv. hørte du hadde flytta til england å greier fant deg
da jeg søkte på nettet så tenkte jeg skulle plage deg med at det bare er 73
dager igjen til jul.
hater å skrive mail som du sikkert husker men har en ts server med ip
87.117.194.108:8932 en gang du har lyst og tid

snakkes kanskje?!?!?

vennlig hilsen
din undermann, slave, undersåtte, gale, missforståtte, rare, gærne og
udmykne tjener

kong-anus
(david)